In this episode, I was interviewed by the Global NLP Conference about how to make big life decisions you won’t regret. Angela Wells, co-founder of the conference, asks some great questions which allows me to share:

  • What key tools I personally use to make decisions to live a life true to myself and actually do it not just think it
  • How you can shift from analysis paralysis and being stuck in life
  • One killer NLP strategy to transform your motivation to take action
  • How to take back control when your career or life problems seem impossible to solve
  • How to not sweat the small stuff and spend your time more wisely
  • The commonalities between my guests on the Burn From Within podcast on how they made hugely successful life and career changing decisions
  • How Covid has changed everything in people’s minds and why The Great Resignation is happening right now


To book a free 20-min confidential call with Matt to discuss any career or life change challenges you are having, go to

Transcription of our interview:

[00:01:46] Matt: I found so much benefit from NLP. And one of the reasons why I found so much benefit and, and why I’m doing this session in particular is being able to connect with my.

[00:01:59] My unconscious and, and actually filtering out all the data from social media and work and everything else to connect with my unconscious so that I have some kind of clarity in order to make decisions to, to have a, to live an authentic life. Which is one of the biggest regrets of the dying, you know, the biggest regret of the dying from the top five regrets of the dying by Bronnie ware was.

[00:02:24] I wish I lived a life true to myself, not one that others expected of me. And I think NLP in particular has helped me live a life true to myself. And now, you know, I used to work in a corporate job in London for, for many years. I’m from the UK originally. And Through NLP, I’ve made conscious decisions by tapping into my unconscious and, and following my intuition and making.

[00:02:54] Informed decisions about many things in life. That’s from, you know, starting my own business. I went into e-commerce property investing. I’ve done some NLP training as well through to moving com countries traveling all around the world. Been to over 60 countries now been living mainly abroad for, for the last three or four years.

[00:03:15] Thailand, I’m now in Georgia, Tbilisi in Georgia. So. I guess like, you know, I think the fundamentals of, of what I’ve learned from NLP and all the tools I’ve been using myself from this place of how can I live a life choosing myself. And one of the ways to do that is using NLP and so many beautiful tools in NLP to be able to make decisions authentically, which aren’t influenced by other people, but they’re influenced by your own unconscious, what you really, really.

[00:03:45] Angela Wells: What are some of the the key tools that you find the most useful in order to live your most authentic self in making those decisions?

[00:03:56] Matt: That’s a really good question. I mean, I can, I can just give you some straight up tools that I think are particularly helpful. Firstly. There’s, you’ve got to look at this, that question in a couple of ways.

[00:04:08] One, you need to know what, you know, you need to know about yourself. You need to know what, like, where are you right now in your life? And Like, what is, what is a good life for you? Like what is a well-designed life? Like, what does a good life look like? You know, that if you were to live a life true to yourself, what would that look like?

[00:04:27] What would that sound like? Would that feel like, like, how do you know that? And so yet you there’s, there’s many tools to use to to explore your unconscious, to, to, to kind of get some clues as to, you know, what lights you up inside. What what motivates you? What energizes you there’s NLP tools.

[00:04:46] There’s also, you know, other coaching tools, there’s psychometric tools as well. I am a big proponent of cite the strengths, find. Psychometric test as, as an initial indicator of, you know, what kind of activities energize you, [00:05:00] they’re just clues, they’re not prescriptive. I think some of these kind of tests that tell you, you should, when you grow up, you should be a fireman or a fighter pilot, you know, that’s, that’s far too prescriptive, but having an indication of like what energizes you and the kind of activities that energize you in work in play, I think is useful.

[00:05:20] I think So that’s one thing that the self-awareness exercises and you know, the coaching that I do, I also not only use NLP, but I use design thinking principles as well to, to basically kind of have a scorecard of where you’re at in different areas of your life, whether it’s work, play health love, those are the kind of four main areas that I focus on.

[00:05:42] And once you kind of get a sense of If you rate yourself out of 10 for each of those four areas, one of those areas is going to come up shorter than the others. And that’s a great area to to then focus on and narrow, narrow in on and and then start planning. Okay. Well, if I’m for, in, in the area of love out of 10, how can I what, what can I do to improve that score?

[00:06:03] Okay. So, so there’s, you know, there’s many, many different tools. So that’s one thing like the, I won’t be able to go into all of them in this image, but that, you know, that’s kind of a snippet of of, of like how you should think about this. Like self-awareness of like where you are in life and what is a good life for you.

[00:06:23] That’s that’s important. The second thing is like, when, you know, Is what, what you want in life, like w w you know, what might motivate you or excite you to, to, to find out more of, well, it’s really about following your curiosity. And when you follow your curiosity, one of the most powerful tools that design thinkers use as well as NLP is, is, is using the tote model.

[00:06:46] So, you know, if you have an idea of, well, you know what I’m thinking of changing my career, I’ve I’ve been in accounts for, you know, 20 years, but actually marketing. It seems really interesting to me. I’m quite curious about that. Well, you know, toting and, and testing out. Potential life of being a marketer and being in that market.

[00:07:11] How can you do that? So kind of setting yourself some projects where you’re actually able to do totes test operate, test exit. We call in NLP in design thinking, we call it prototyping and, and that’s, it’s the same, exactly the same process that engineers use to, to, to deliver. The iPhone or hinges on the iMac laptop.

[00:07:33] Exactly the same. You’re testing things again and again, and again, until you, it feels right. It looks right. It sounds right. It fits the market. If it’s yours, if it’s yourself, your authentic self. So, so the other part of the equation is the first part is self-awareness of course, and just really understand that, getting to know yourself more NLP is some of the best tools I’ve seen for that.

[00:07:57] The second part. You know, if you have an idea of what you’re doing, of what you want to do, you know, part of that is curiosity and that, and then from that it’s, it’s, it’s having a bias to action and, and testing that out and seeing how it feels your felt experience when you adopt one of these new projects that you’re curious about could be a new career.

[00:08:19] It could maybe be maybe if you’re thinking about moving abroad, maybe you spend some time outside of your town every weekend and just see how that feels. You know, so tow is a big one. And then there’s this third aspect, which is, you know, what, you, you, you know, what you, who you are, you know, what you want to do and what you believe.

[00:08:39] And, and so then the question is, well, you’ve got to take action, right? And there’s a lot of people that know what they want to do. Maybe they want to start a new career or maybe, and they know what career they want, or maybe they want to move abroad or, or travel more or. You know, become a musician or whatever they want to do, and they know that and they’ve maybe tried it out and test it out with projects.

[00:09:01] And so, you know, then the next thing is, well, now I need to actually make a decision to, to commit to this a bit more. So that’s scary for a lot of people. And if you go from. Thinking, oh, I want to have a new career or a different life path. And then you to actually doing that, it’s, that’s overwhelming.

[00:09:22] That’s and a lot of people I speak to, you know, who are. You know, business people, engineers, designers, you know people would work in tech for example, that they they’re, they are an analyst. They like to analyze things. A lot of people in finance, like to analyze things as well. I know you’re familiar with that, that world of finance as well.

[00:09:41] And, and so, you know, analysis paralysis happens. And so the, the kind of the last part is, well, how can you how can you take out. In manageable ways because you know, again, part of the, the biggest regrets, I read a a [00:10:00] recent survey by, I think it was a British charity. That they interviewed, I think 2000 people and it’s in 2000 British adults and it said four out of 10 people regret how they’ve lived their lives so far.

[00:10:13] And three quarters of those of those people surveyed said that they. Th they regretted the most, not doing things. So the inaction was the thing that people regretted the most in life. And so that’s the last part of this equation. It’s how, you know, how can I take action and what is going to be a manageable way of taking action.

[00:10:36] Now, part of that is this thing called prototyping and toting. And, and, but there’s also some other really useful NLP exercises that, that, that I do that, that basically give you motivation to do what you want to do now. And I’ll, I’ll tell you that. So, so one of them that I absolutely. And, and I might do it in the in our session in January at the, at the conference is the Dickens model.

[00:11:04] And that’s where you future pace yourself. You can Google this. I think Tony is

[00:11:10] Angela Wells: the Disney world, but not

[00:11:11] Matt: the Dickies model. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So this, so, so you can Google it and I can probably put a link below on, on the 10 and you can share it on Facebook, but it’s basically where you. You future pace yourself, you know, one year from now two years from now, five years from now, you can even go to the end of your life.

[00:11:29] And actually the most, some of the most powerful and biggest decisions you’re going to make is when you do kind of think really long-term. And when you, when you think about a decision that you want to make, whether it, it might be, for example, moving from. No now for example, or in two years time, or whenever you want, you know, if you think about these big decisions and, and really project yourself five years from now, having done that.

[00:11:57] Hmm. And then you’re looking back on your life and really, really like associating. And this is where a coach really comes in handy. You know, you can do it yourself and I’ve got an audio guide. I’m happy to put the link below and you can listen to that. But having a coach. To guide you through. And they S I mean, the, the, the, the conference that, that you’re holding, you know, the world-class phenomenal coaches recommend any of them that, that are speaking at this conference, but having a coach that, that can guide you through being in your future, experiencing and looking back, having made that decision that you’re going to make.

[00:12:32] And then feeling how that, how that really feels and the, and it might be that there’s loads of pleasure there. And then that, that feeling that motivates you and that really motivates you so that when you come out of that and come back to the present moment, you’ve, you’ve anchored and you can anchor it as well.

[00:12:49] You’ve anchored, you know, that motivation and that. that gives you the motivation to act much, much more than you would if you were just writing things down on paper, talking to people, then the other side of the equation for the Dickens process is. Is the regret feeling, right? So it’s, you know, if I didn’t, if I didn’t do that and I projected myself one year from now two years from now, five years from now at the end of my life from now.

[00:13:14] And I look back on that decision of never having, for example, never having gone to Australia when I, when I could have done to get, I, I regret doing now, I wish I’d gone to Australia. Before I was 30, so I could have got a longer term, these I’m sure a lot of people probably do as well, but, but kind of looking back and feeling that pain of, of, of regret, because you didn’t do that.

[00:13:39] That’s a great motivating factor as well. So this balance of massive. pleasure From having taken that decision and looking back at the end of your life or many years into the future and balancing that with the pain of not doing that decision, you know, when you, and you anchor that to maybe an image or sound or word or whatever you want, but, but having that tool those two it’s a two-pronged approach.

[00:14:05] The Dickinson. That’s that’s a huge way. And my clients you’ve got testimonials on this have, have had huge benefit of taking action knowing what they want to do in life and what business they want to set up and, and being clear about their goals, but not taking action. You know, that’s where that’s where I think NLP coaching in particular is some of the most powerful coaching in the world for, for actually living a life that you’re not going to be regretful of because.

[00:14:34] There’s wet there’s tools of self-awareness there’s tools of prototyping and testing to really see if it’s right for you. So you’re managing your risk and then there’s tools for motivating yourself to actually take action, where a lot of people, particularly people who are spend their jobs in an analysis roles.

[00:14:55] They can break out of that. So several tools there anyway, I’ve ranted [00:15:00] on a little bit there, but well, no,

[00:15:01] Angela Wells: that’s absolutely fine. It’s, it’s quite fascinating. Cause I was curious to know, you know, those people that maybe have already made a decision, perhaps like you say that they’ve kind of looks back and go, oh, I wish I’d have done that.

[00:15:13] And that can sometimes stop us from moving forward. How do you help someone if they’re kind of stuck in their own sense of regret? ’cause. I mean, as we know, the, usually the route of anything is to actually take action, even if it’s just one small step or we can get caught up in the regret of not having done it, thinking it’s perhaps still not possible, or it’s too late.

[00:15:34] And obviously that’s a belief, a set of beliefs. But how do you move people out of that state?

[00:15:44] Matt: Again? That’s a very good question, Angela. So I think there’s a few things yet. One is. You know, if someone is, it feels regretful of not doing something, maybe for example, they wish they changed their career and they’re in their fifties or sixties, for example.

[00:16:02] And they think that it’s too late. They think it’s too late and they think they can never change. And, and they think maybe. You know, I’m going to have to be miserable because I haven’t done this yet, and I’ll never be able to do it again. You know, that, that, that is potentially quite common for people that might not be happy with their job or a relationship or whatever is important to them in their life.

[00:16:24] So the first, I mean, there’s, there’s a few things. The first thing is that is a dysfunctional belief, a lot of the time. And so, because. You know, there’s a dysfunctional belief, it’s a limiting belief. And so there, another tool from NLP is reframing and being able to reframe that problem and look at it in a different light is really, really useful.

[00:16:53] And the tool that the kind of framework that I use for reframing in particular, and this comes from design thinking, it kind of mixes the NLP and design thinking together is. How can I reframe a problem that that’s getting me stuck now into a new problem that I can take action on? And there’s this, there’s the mindset of a design thinker is having a biased to action.

[00:17:19] So any if you’re in, if you have any problem in life or in business or anything. If you, if that problem is not actionable as a new can’t take action to move forward, build your way forward with it and progress, then that is considered what’s called a gravity problem. Now, gravity problems are things that you cannot control or they’re just so big problems that, you know, it’s going to take a monumental amount of work to, to, to change something.

[00:17:49] And therefore it probably isn’t worth it for you. It might be a lifetime of work with no rewards. And so these gravity problems, if you do have a gravity problem, then you know, you have to recognize it. So as an example, a gravity problem could be COVID right. And I spoke with about this. And, and, and, you know, the, the, the issue of COVID, I think we’ve talked about it when it was really ramping up in India a few months.

[00:18:20] And he said something really beautiful from from really reflecting a lot of about COVID. And he was in the mountains at the time and there was just all sorts of crazy cases going on in Bangalore and. And there was nothing he could do about it. And this is a gravity problem. This is something that, you know, whatever you do, you know, you can’t travel in certain areas because of COVID and you can’t do things because of health restrictions because of COVID.

[00:18:47] And that might restrict some things you can do in business. And that might restrict some things you can do in your personal life. And so that’s a gravity problem. That’s something you can’t change. And so the thing that it shared with me, and this is something. Really is adopted by design thinkers as well, is, is the, the frame and the mindset of acceptance and having that, that mindset of, okay, that one, some of these problems that I have in my life and my, all my career and my relationships, they, I can’t change them.

[00:19:19] You know, whatever I do, I can’t change them. You know, you might have a physical disability, for example, and, and, and, you know, to, to. Try and solve problems around that. It’s going to be difficult. There are work arounds, of course, but there’s some things you might not be able to do with a physical disability.

[00:19:35] That’s a fact, right? So, so having, having a mindset of acceptance, this is what shit. I realized when he was in the mountains when COVID was happening Bangalore, that’s so powerful because then once you accept some, a problem that you can’t solve, then you can start looking and, and, and finding a new problem and reframing your problem into something that’s [00:20:00] actionable and something that you can take steps in to build your way forward and make progress.

[00:20:04] It’s not a. You know, having a perfect life and the perfect career overnight, it’s about progress. It’s about small steps and that’s another thing. Small chunks is really, really helpful as well. Yeah.

[00:20:16] Angela Wells: Yeah. It’s, it’s very similar to that model of, you know, what’s in my boat and what’s out of my boat as in, you know, like the row isn’t this it’s like, well, we can only do what’s within our control.

[00:20:27] Is it within. Kind of my boat for where I am with my, my team. Or is it outside of that, in which case I have no influence over that and then taking the small steps to make it happen.

[00:20:39] Matt: Exactly, exactly right. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:20:43] Angela Wells: Yeah. It’s, it’s quite, I think sometimes people do struggle with acceptance. And like you say, re being able to reframe it and make it something that is actionable, even if it’s just one step at a time.

[00:20:57] It brings us more of a sense of agency as Judith lo would call it, you know, and, and a sense of control. It’s like, well, I can words within this context instead of that context.

[00:21:09] Matt: Beautiful. Yeah. It’s so that’s so important and you’re right, that this sense of control and autonomy in our lives, I think, you know, that’s one of the, one of the reasons why people stay stuck.

[00:21:19] For so long is because they feel like they’re, they’re not in control of their lives. And, and, you know, that’s where reframing really comes in and, and acceptance. So step one, if there is something that’s out of your control frame, like label it as a, a gravity problem, something that you can’t take action on, right.

[00:21:38] Accept it, and then think, okay, how can I reframe this or find a new problem? That’s going to help me in my life to solve. And then take action on it and, and, you know, then you can take a path from that.

[00:21:52] Angela Wells: It’s quite interesting that you, you, you say it’s find a new problem, whereas with, with NLP, but it’s always like likable find the positive and it’s always like, well, let us kind of took me back a little bit to kind of go, oh, find another problem I can solve.

[00:22:07] It’s like, okay. So it also makes you think in a slightly different way as well. Doesn’t it that I guess opens up. Those channels of creativity.

[00:22:18] Matt: Yeah. I mean, I think this is probably, I would say this is one of the most important points to get is, is, you know, are you working on the right problems in life?

[00:22:33] You could say challenges as well. You know, entrepreneurs that they, they get paid to solve problems. And, you know, you can spend all of your day in your office or your job or your, you know, your life working on problems that do they really matter, do they really matter to you? Which to other people, so. You know, part of this living with no regret is, is, is actually taking a step back, zooming out, big, picturing out, you know, not sometimes you’ve got to zoom out and, and, you know, not focus on the small chunks in the day-to-day operations in life and zoom out and, and really take stock and think.

[00:23:20] You know, am I sweating the small stuff for no reason? Like why, why am I stressing about this? And often when you zoom out you find so much, so much clarity. And, and that, and in that situation, in that perspective, you can start to find other problems, other opportunities, other challenges that you can spend more time on and Opportunities and how you might be able to reframe what you’re, what you’re currently doing.

[00:23:45] So, so that’s super powerful as well, you know, taking a big picture approach and and yeah. You know, getting that perspective. Yeah. One, I mean, one, you know, one example of this give you a quick example. Jeff Bezos, I think I think I might’ve mentioned before he, he He was a hedge fund manager.

[00:24:07] I think, I think he worked in hedge funds in, in, in New York city, Manhattan before he started Right. And you know, he, he had a well-paid job by anyone by a lot of people’s standards and, you know, loads of promotions, I think he was seen in vice-president at the time. And he said to his boss before he started Amazon, that.

[00:24:28] I’m thinking of starting an internet company, the Internet’s coming out, I’m thinking, you know, maybe books might be a good thing to sell on the internet, cause this is just starting out. And I think I’m going to quit my job and his boss told him to, you know, think about it for 48 hours and. You know, there was so many considerations to think about that, you know, if he quit at that point in time in finance, especially in a hedge funds, there’s huge bonuses that you’re going to lose.

[00:24:58] There’s you know, [00:25:00] obviously he’s built up a career and he could be, you know, walking away from more huge promotions and all of these kinds of things. And so, you know, He has a thing. You can look it up on YouTube as well. And I talk about it in my podcast and I’ve definitely share a link in LinkedIn about, about this, but yes, he, he, he really took a long-term view and his view, his strategy, and this is something we’re going to explore in the, in the session at the global NLP conference in January is.

[00:25:36] If I take, if he took himself, he actually took himself. He future paced, didn’t call it NLP, but he used NLP and your future posts himself going to 80 years old. And looking back on that decision. Exactly the same as what I talked about before when he, when he took that, long-term view that 80 year old and looking back of leaving that hedge fund and starting this internet business and seeing where that went, looking back.

[00:26:01] And, and thinking, would I ever regretted taking that chance as an 80 year old and then revisiting that and saying, would I have regretted you know, staying in my room? And comparing those two things that, those two big life decisions, when you zoom out and take the long-term perspective, these kinds of short-term confusions of big bonuses, for example, and you know, employees for promotions and all this kind of stuff they kind of wither away and, and, and that, you know, that it’s, this, this structure is not just about Career change.

[00:26:35] You know, it’s about many, many print. If these are, these are nature principles, these are principles used in investing, you know, I’m, I’m currently investing in Bitcoin and some other investments. And if you look at market volatilities, again, this is decision-making and regrets. When you look at market volatilities and you kind of look at the short term, Big swings when you zoom out and you look and you really start to think about the future and the long-term the fundamentals.

[00:27:07] And are you going to regret the long-term suddenly you have a totally different perspective and if you use. If you use that mindset and really think long-term in so many things in life, you know, if you start thinking about legacy more than, you know, what’s going to happen next week, next month, things, things start to change.

[00:27:26] And often you find you are following more your values. When you think longterm that naturally happens. That’s what I’ve noticed. Anyway, I’ve I’ve I’ve digressed again.

[00:27:42] Angela Wells: No, no, that’s absolutely fine. I think it is because one of the, for me, I think as with most people, you know, one of the main benefits certainly of knowing and understanding NLP is, is the modeling aspect with your podcast where you’ve interviewed. So many people through different kinds of career transition, you know, I mean, it’s, it’s, we’ll, we’ll share the links later for your podcast.

[00:28:06] Cause some of the, some of the interviews are really fascinating as to how people have gone from, you know, this long-term like you say, secure career to something that’s like almost completely the opposite to what they were doing, that it allows you to be able to model their strategy, their thinking. And even that sentence.

[00:28:26] You know what, it’s, what it’s like. Cause you know, you’re making this big transition and at some point you’ve got to jump into the own loan you know, which takes courage and then continue to do so. What are, what are some of the the commonalities that you found in doing this with people, with strategies perhaps, and beliefs through doing your interviews and your.

[00:28:48] Matt: Yeah, well, I mean, I just talked about Jeff basis is a strategy. Regret minimization theory, look it up on YouTube. He, he literally talks about it and I’ve shared it on the show. But I mean, I interviewed a couple of dozen, no more than that. Almost 40 people now who have had career changes and big, big life changes.

[00:29:10] You’re right. Modeling is, you know, something I’m fascinated with in NLP learning how people do the strategies they do. And this particular strategy is how do I make big decisions with no regret? Right. Whether that’s a career decision or a life transition, you know, difficult one to make. And you know, let’s talk about some of the examples that, that I’ve of people I’ve interviewed.

[00:29:33] And then we can maybe go into some of the commonalities there. So I had a lady called Kim or Leschi who is a. Leading sales consultants, the owner, she, she owns a Kao advantage group over in Canada and years ago. She had a painful breakup with a boyfriend. She was very, had a very successful sales career working for American express, I think and you know, kept on getting pay [00:30:00] rises.

[00:30:00] And after this break she had a moment of clarity and she decided to go traveling. And six months out, when she, after she went traveling, she wrote an award-winning blog and book. Then when she got batched created her own successful sales sales agency, and she even met Oprah. Right. So we’re going from, because of, because of the success you had and.

[00:30:27] So that, you know, there’s all the stories that I’ve selected and interviewed have been people that have had huge success in, in however they define success and they’ve all had these decision points in their life. And so, you know, that that was one example. And I mean, another one I had a secretary who is.

[00:30:50] He was basically traveling around the world. He felt very lost kind of drifting in life. He was backpacking at the time in Canada and his good friend, Chris died when he was just 24 years old. So he was quite young back then, but he’s one of his best friends died at 21. And again, you had a moment of clarity and realization, and this process just kind of happened unconsciously.

[00:31:16] And it totally changed his life. And now he’s created a global movement called 100 things. And since then, he’s, he’s basically chosen. He made a decision after Chris died, his friend that he was going to. Live a life true to himself. And the way he said he was going to do that was to set a hundred goals of regrets that he would have if he died, that he didn’t fulfill.

[00:31:40] Right. This is quite an interesting strategy actually. And he went ahead and, and, and, you know, started spending time doing, doing them. And he hadn’t done all of them, but he’s done a lot of them, but that created, you know, because he documented the process and he was very authentic in what he was doing. TV stations picked it up.

[00:32:00] He became an ESPN TV host in America, moved to LA from Australia. Wrote a book had his own TV series. Now he’s a keynote speaker. He gets paid. I don’t know how much tens of thousands per speech. Doing chemo, no motivational speeches about this very concept, right? Again, wildly successful. We never knew who would go there.

[00:32:24] But this was from this moment of realization from something that happened to him and it made him think and question life and you know, another Person that I interviewed who you will know that she’s a great NLP trainer you know, with, with thought labs initiate. , I interviewed her and, you know, she’s an LP trainer.

[00:32:45] I’m a leadership coach. And a few years ago, she used to work in the pharmaceutical industry as a kind of full-time corporate job and you know, very successful. She, she kind of really made it financially, you know, got lots and lots of promotions and. You know, she, at once at one point, she, she told me she felt really empty inside.

[00:33:09] Even though she was really successful in her career and one night she just, she just couldn’t stop crying. And she actually spent five days. Basically kind of searching with inside herself, in any place, any place in the world, in the woods of Michigan. So like right in the middle of the woods you had to kind of get away from, you know, society.

[00:33:33] Busy cities. And essentially her answers came from within. And she, she told me she had an image of children that were missing in her life. And anyway, long story short, she moved to, she had opportunities that came up where. She moved to India to help children in India in her job. And she started an orphanage there.

[00:33:55] And for the last, I think, 20 years she has now raised over 20 kids herself in this orphanage. I mean, talk about career change, life change moving from America to India and raising 20 kids you know, that’s something, but she, you know what she is. One of the kind of most passionate, purposeful, balanced, happy people that, that I’ve met.

[00:34:19] And I just absolutely loved their story and facts. I loved all the stories for, from the people I, I interviewed. And you asked the question, well, what are the commonalities? Well, you know, that the commonalities Angela are around going through some sort of pain, you know, and, and. A lot of the time when people make big life transitions and changes it’s because something happens to them and then they, and they, and it changes their framework and maybe someone dies or maybe someone gets there’s a breakup, or, you know, maybe, you know, you just, you have a breakdown or a burnout or something like that, but [00:35:00] something changes.

[00:35:01] And then suddenly. Suddenly you reevaluate everything in life and you start looking at your belief, you start looking at what’s important to your values, and then you start thinking, okay, there’s got to be more to this. There’s gotta be more to this than life. And when I and we talked about Jeff Bezos earlier in this conversation, the commonalities Angela work.

[00:35:26] Really about looking at their whole life and their mortality and thinking that the question that they all or most of them ask themselves and this, this just came up in the interviews. I didn’t wasn’t really any specific modeling questions. Like they all just shared the exact pretty much the same question.

[00:35:47] If I died, if I died today or tomorrow. What would I regret not doing the most? That was, that was such a common question. So, so having that question and actually experiencing pain and a lot of people are, you see a lot of people that have had these realizations during COVID right? Some people have lost loved ones, unfortunately, during COVID and, and, you know, that’s a terrible thing.

[00:36:15] Then I know several people who’ve got COVID now. And. You know, people have been away from their office and, and been working from home and spent a lot more time reflecting on life. And, and, and rethinking like different options in life. Maybe kind of finding new problems. They had these other problems before, and now they’ve got these new problems.

[00:36:36] Right. And it’s like an, it’s like a forced upon reframe. They’ve actually had time to start reframing things. Yeah.

[00:36:44] Angela Wells: Well, when you. Area of wellbeing. I think that was kind of not in people’s like full consciousness before I think, as a result as well.

[00:36:55] Matt: Yeah. And I think, you know, it’s really interesting. I, I was having a conversation with a guy called Gurnick Banes who basically runs a, a think tank in the UK and he, and, and, and he published a report.

[00:37:11] I think it was commented on in the guardian, happy to, to share the report as well in the links where he interviewed in June this year, 2000 people who were representative of the population of great Britain, it was a YouGov survey and he found. Since the report was called how COVID changed our minds and it basically kind of surveyed people about how people think differently now after COVID happened, like when, you know, one, one and a half years into the first kind of cases and the, the, honestly the statistics, Angela startling, you know, 87% of people of Britain’s in that report.

[00:37:48] Think it’s important to have a meaningful purpose at work. And more than a third of those surveys have thought about changing their jobs. And 39% of those said it’s because they wanted to find greater purpose and greater meaning over income. And interestingly one in 10 people said that they looked at moving abroad, but shockingly.

[00:38:09] 80% of those surveyed said they’d done little, little, or nothing to, to change. Now. Some, some of the concerns were around money and that’s understandable. And the other concerns were around lack of opportunity for those kinds of reasons. But, but you know, this goes back to. People’s minds have changed since COVID have happened.

[00:38:30] And I think the reason for that is because people are more aware of their own mortality now, and they, they actually have been projecting unconsciously or consciously. And hopefully after even this conversation today, more conscious. Projecting their lives of what they’re actually doing every day of their life.

[00:38:51] You know, their typical work week. What if they projected that work? We can continue to do it. Are they going to be happy when they look back? When they’re 80 years old, the same strategy that Jeff basis talked about? The same strategy. All of these other people have interviewed who made these big brave decisions to, to shift to a more authentic life.

[00:39:11] Are they going to be happy? And the answer is a lot of people are not happy. And that’s why you’re seeing in the headlines even this week and the guardian and other newspapers the great resignation, you know, there’s been people in there drove. Leaving work, particularly in America. I think 4 million people now have left work, but they’re choosing not to go into another job until they find something that they want to do.

[00:39:37] So I mean, the statistics speak for themselves and it all comes back to this reflection of. Of our mortality and what’s important and I have more choice and I’ve had, I’ve had an opportunity to think when I haven’t before. And this session that I’m going to do is, is going to give people an experience [00:40:00] to.

[00:40:01] Really feel what it’s like to first of all, find out, you know, what are you missing, but really experience it by having some guidance guided coaching. And then secondly you know, start, once you worked out, you know, what you might regret doing, if you have a dilemma as well, like how can you make that decision to, to, to, to, to choose if you have a dilemma of things to do different parts you’re thinking of doing so we’ll explore that in the, in the session.

[00:40:28] Angela Wells: Wow. It’s going to be amazing. I think in the right time of year as well, being the end of January and the beginning of a new year. So it’s, there’s going to be huge amount of takeaway as there has already been in today’s conversation. So if people want to connect with you, Matt, where, where would be the best place for them to find you?

[00:40:51] Matt: Sure. Okay. You can go to my website, burn from If you want to have a call with me if I’ve got time in my diary, and you’re generally thinking about a, some kind of career change or life change, you can book a call with me, Ben, from forward slash call cawl. I would also encourage people.

[00:41:12] LinkedIn. Yep. Matt, Matt, Matt, Gary Fisher, and LinkedIn. I think I’m like LinkedIn slash burn from within probably something like that. You’ll find me or there’s any one Matt Garfish in the world. I should trademark it really, but. And you know what I would, I would encourage people to listen to I’ve I’ve got an audio guide is on my podcast.

[00:41:33] It’s also on my website. You can download it. It’s called the guide to big decisions with no regrets and it shares. Interview it shares actually clips of interviews and how I’ve kind of modeled this strategy of Jeff basis. It also shares a chip clip of Jeff basis and also Steve jobs. And it kind of connects them all together in a guide on how you can rethink making decisions with no regrets.

[00:41:57] Kind of 20 minutes highly informative and I think you can get it so you can download it on, I think, burned from forward slash no regrets. And you can just enter your details and you’ll get sent an email. It’s also on my podcast as well. Kind of look for the band from within podcast, it’s on apple, Spotify, all the major podcast networks burn from within, and then just find the, the episode which is called the guides to two big decisions from no regrets.

[00:42:23] So I would encourage people to check that out and really start thinking about this because it’s important for everyone. It’s not just important for people that are thinking of a job change or career change is for everything in life.

[00:42:34] Angela Wells: Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for that. That’s very kind. So if you would like to.

[00:42:40] Find out and experience more of what Matt has to offer with making big decisions with a little regret and much more. Of course, then please do sign up for the conference. We still have the early bird price on, and if you add an extra. Code, which is mat 10. You’ll get an extra 10% of that early bird price.

[00:43:00] So, Matt, thank you very much for the conversation today. It’s it’s just been amazing and it’s so much information that you shared with us today. The session is going to be even better because it will be all interactive. I presume we’re breakout rooms, et cetera. So you’ll get a chance to really experience what Matt has to share.

[00:43:16] And we look forward to seeing you all again, in person online, virtually somewhere. Very soon.

[00:43:24] Matt: Yeah. Thank you so much, Angela, for having this conversation with me and yeah, like you said the session that the conference is, is going to be highly experiential, highly interactive. You’re you’re going to focus on your own decision strategies, which is super important.

[00:43:40] And by the end of the session, you’re going to really understand like how you make decisions. And, and. Basically how to live, make decisions with less regret going forward, there will be changed. So I’m looking, I’m really looking forward to any session on the, on this conference. I think because the beauty of this conference is it’s so experiential and you change unconsciously, you change and all of the speakers do that.

[00:44:04] And so hats off to you initiate for. Organizing this fret, this format, because there’s not many conferences that do that. And you know, it really is an opportunity for, for big change over these few days. So thank you. Thank you.

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